Business plan?

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Jun 22, 2017, 01:55 PM

I always equate a lot of this with sports. Do you remember growing up when they had things called PITCHBACKS/

This was a little net thing that you would set up in your backyard, throw a baseball into and it would bounce back into the air. You would catch it, and pretend you just saved the game winning home run at Yankee Stadium in the world series. Or you had those batting things that you hit off the tee, going to batting cages, etc. and do pretty well all by yourself. Or if you played with your parents, siblings, etc. who served up those easy to catch and hit balls. Easy Peasy.

Then you got into the sand lots and there were other people there hitting, throwing, running bases, and it wasn’t quite so easy.
Then you get into organized baseball where there were other people TRYING TO BEAT YOU, and it really got hard. Pitchers didn’t mind THROWING AT YOU. Or hitting you. They weren’t serving up the ball easily.

THEN, you get into HIGH SCHOOL, Jr College, college, etc. with EACH STEP, it gets MUCH MUCH HARDER, and most people WASH OUT AND QUIT. They find other things, or the competition weeds them out. It is not even a percent of a percent of a percent that go on to even play AA or AAA ball, much less the Major leagues.

Music is much like that. There are millions upon millions upon millions, that get instruments or computer programs that write music for them. They spend BILLIONS of dollars getting recording equipment, they take lessons, whatever, some get in organized music classes, do plays, in schools,form bands with their friends, etc. THE VAST MAJORITY are writing these things they think pass for songs, recording them on camera phones, and put them on the INTERNET. Hundreds of thousands A DAY.

How many actually leave the comfort of their living or bed rooms and actually go try to play a gig. Most feel they don’t have to now. These are the same people that think they are going to make a career playing GUITAR HERO by pushing buttons on a plastic fake guitar.

NOPE.

While the Internet puts things OUT THERE, it actually makes it MORE IMPORTANT THAN EVER to have a REAL INTERACTION WITH FANS. That is what motivates them to do something like support artists, writers and songs. They have to feel a CONNECTION to it. And without some form of PERSONAL INTERACTION, you are no more than an ELECTRONIC IMPULSE. You are a SPAM EMAIL. How connected are you to SPAM EMAIL?

So that is why you have to PLAY A LOT. Build your following. And you HAVE TO WRITE SONGS THAT PEOPLE RELATE TO in ways other than clicking a computer mouse, or finding on some web site along with a billion other songs.

If you look at today’s modern heroes, ED SHEERAN, THE WEEKEND, TAYLOR SWIFT, LITTLE BIG TOWN, you name it, and you find a HUGE LIVE CONNECTION. Even when they GIVE RECORDINGS AWAY, they are cultivating LIVE PRESENCE. That is what separates the adults from the children.

So I am glad you are seeing some of that. If you keep working at it, you will be finding your niche. That is the place you start.

MAB

 
     
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Marc-Alan Barnette Joined Jul 29, 2010
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Jun 22, 2017, 03:54 PM

Larry and Lorraine,  (I assume the lovely Lorraine is reading along).

I finally got your video on Youtube to play for me; after I took Gavin’s advise and wound that crank on the side of my old antiquated keyboard to a near breaking point.  I was finally able to hear for myself and recognize the talent the two of you have, leading me to come to somewhat of a different conclusion.  You are both further along in performance and writing skills than I originally gave you credit for; perhaps not yet time to buy a gown and Tux for the Grammy’s; or rent a Limo;  but further along than my first impression.

Now, I’m “NOT” going to disagree with any words of advise MAB has given you; because he truly knows his stuff.  MAB works with hundreds of people hoping to become recording artist’s and songwriters on the professional side of the music business; along with numerous others (like me) that merely want to become better songwriters for our own personal pleasure (for whatever reason).

To me, your song was good but nothing I would proclaim so good it was better than anything I’ve heard on radio. Realize though, opinions on songs can be very subjective and even though I didn’t think it was a great song, I did feel it was a good song, and I enjoyed listening to it.  The thing is; even though I couldn’t distinquish all of the lyrics clearly (that Lorraine was singing), there was a spot I felt one line was too wordy and the flow of the melody may have suffered.  Also; the use in a couple of lines repeating “nah, na, nah” may have been popular with songs years ago but to me that just means you missed an opportunity to add some good lyrics. 

I felt your song was good but also showed there was some room for improvement.  In my opinion, the soft rock genre allows room for a more appealing sounding melody driven song to carry decent lyrics; more than decent lyrics will ever carry a poor melody in any genre.  Having said that, if you learn how to write really good lyrics and marry them to a very catchy melody, you have a winner.

But like I said, I couldn’t hear all the words Lorraine was singing so I hate to comment on how well they were written.  I am merely going by my experience most songwriters don’t write really good lyrics unless they have been taught how to do so by a really good songwriter.  That is more up MAB’s alley than mine.  But allow me to express again, when you combine really well written lyrics with a very catchy melody, you really have something.  However allow me to share with you also.  Most musicians (guitar players like you) have developed a skill to repeat good riffs and chord progressions like you played on your video.  But…... writing good lyrics is a skill that may need more attention than just listening to songs we enjoy. IMHO

Please know I am trying to be very encouraging to you and Lorraine; not only because you show talent and should be playing out to build your chops.  Also know, even though I think you are both talented, I’m pretty impressed with how cute Lorraine is and I’m hoping she has a sister or cousin she will introduce this old guy to.  Ha!!! (totally just teasin).  But just in case Lorraine may have a sister or cousin that may be attracted to fat old men like me, they’d be impressed with the fact I almost own my own home.  It’s really nice and has it’s “original” tires and everythang.  Very much Retro today with it’s orange shag carpet and avocado green appliances. Hey, not trying to impress you Larry Ol Buddy, but I play an old Silvertone guitar through an amp I bought from Sears and Roebuck back in the 60’s.  It could be your’s Brother if you play your cards right.  Ha!!!

OD

[ Edited: 22 June 2017 04:04 PM by OD-OldDog]
 
     
OD-OldDog Joined Feb 14, 2016
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Jun 22, 2017, 10:03 PM

Larry and all.

I have been asked about “what I do, and how I do it. And what would be my “product.” This relates to this topic here, BUSINESS PLAN. The “Business plan” illustrated here is about crafting songs, presenting those songs, and working toward your overall goals.
But it all begins with the song. And for artists and writers, finding something the ARTIST is PASSIONATE ABOUT IS EVERYTHING.

This is a video that came out today on YOU TUBE, from a 15 year old artist from Illinois, I Was working with two weeks ago. I wrote the song with her, teaching her how to adapt ideas from real life. I lined up the recording session and players, played the guitar, sang the backgrounds and produced the session. She has done this as a part of her home town fourth of July celebration coming up in a few weeks.

She is already building fan base, getting hits and raising awareness in her home town which will help her business.

That is a business plan. That is what I do.

Hello folks,

I have been asked about what it is I do in my teaching and mentoring services and what the “PRODUCT” I would have to show other people what it is. This is an example.

BREEZY LOVE, is a 15 year old singer/songwriter from Winekta, Illinois. She has been to Nashville on three trips now, working with me on her music, performing, and now recording. She has done my “SONGWRITING TOURS” where I go through the “past, present and future” of the participant. Many people want different things, but Breezy is a good example. Over the past few months we have gone through her songwriting catelogue, written four songs and now recorded this one, “SMALL TOWN WITH A GREAT BIG HEART.”

In my teaching methods, I show how to write songs from personal events, people, places, in the artist’s life so they will have a tighter connection with what they write. In this, it was details from her home town, which many of us have seen. If you have seen the movies, HOME ALONE, FERRIS BULLER’S DAY OFF, or ANIMAL HOUSE CHRISTMAS VACATION, this is the town they filmed those movies in, because it looks like the “perfect American Town.”

They have a huge fourth of July event and Breezy is one of the performers this year. We wrote that song for the event. It is how to build hometown fans to help in your overall career and business plan.
This went on YOU TUBE today.

MAB

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe2DE7MYl2I

 
     
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Marc-Alan Barnette Joined Jul 29, 2010
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Jun 25, 2017, 12:09 PM

MAB, I’d like to comment on your efforts to help the young artist “Breezy Love” as you call her.  Personally I’m not in her demographics of a fan because I’m too old to enjoy her “pop country” style; but I do recognize her sound is what a lot of younger listener’s would be drawn to.

I do have to compliment you though for your ability to stay on top of current country sounds and be able to help a younger artist like her.  I truly don’t know how you do it; because I would not even know where to begin with a younger artist like this.

I think you have saved her a lot of time, money, and misery trying to figure things out on her own; especially with her writing such a catchy and positive type song.  I truly did enjoy listening to it and I can realize how much you have helped her.  Good Job!!!

OD

 
     
OD-OldDog Joined Feb 14, 2016
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Jun 25, 2017, 01:14 PM

Thanks OD, she is pretty fired up. As they ALL are at that age. At 15, and all you have had is bad advice, people ripping you off, and trying to get your parents for money, to actually get something that WORKS and pays off for you, is a pretty big deal. So I ‘m real proud of her go-get it ness. She and her family are great and I hope they can keep it up.

But as you know, the vast majority burn our long before anything really happens. And that is why I put this on the “BUSINESS PLAN” thread. You can plan everything right, do the right songs, have the right follow through, work on all kinds of things, and STILL not be accepted or embraced by the public. It is why the major labels spend SO MUCH MONEY ON THE FAILURES as well as the SUCCESSES. You are trying to get ONE TAYLOR SWIFT, LADY GA GA, KATY PERRY, for the literally thousands that you put money, time and effort in that never get traction.

Artists, songs, companies, are very subjective. They can spend and do spend MILLIONS of dollars on things that never go anywhere. Artists, burn out, get pregnant, drugs, attitude problems, funding dries, up, life gets in the way, jobs, college, families, all are contributing factors. Of the HUNDREDS and THOUSANDS I have been around and many I have worked with, very very very few ACTUALLY STAY WITH IT LONG ENOUGH to really do much of anything.

So it is nice when they have that great excitement at the first. She’s got a LOT of huge walls to climb over and if I had to bet on it, I would say she is going to be VASTLY different in two-three years. Maybe she’ll still be doing it, maybe not. But if I can work with her, she will at least know her odds.

I try to get artists to concentrate on their HOME AREAS FIRST. It is like politics. You can’t skip over all the steps (Unless you have a few billion dollars) and just rush to the top of the line, without going through all the ground work first. Even billionaires, (I’m not naming names) have to do a lot of things first. Build a reputation, fortune, other things that build their celebrity before they can take over the head of whatever they are trying to do.

This is especially true with artists. For the purpose of this thread, if Larry doesn’t get the right songs, performance, attitudes, builds his fan base, and keep building all the time, there is no sense looking for the “big payoff” because it is not going to happen. Right now, he has to work on his product, the nerves and attitude of his partner, find their own funding and backers, their own fan base, get their recordings, do their videos, find their target audience, build their demand so their profile rises, and get GREAT AT WHAT THEY DO.
Without that, there is NO USE FOR LLC’S, COPYRIGHTS, MANAGEMENT CONTRACTS, MANAGERS, PUBLISHERS, or ANY of those other things he wanted to start his business plan with.

The REAL BUSINESS PLAN?
GET SO GREAT EVERYONE LOVES YOU AND WANTS TO HEAR YOU OVER AND OVER AND OVER.

If you can’t do that, concentrate on what you CAN DO.

MAB

 
     
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Marc-Alan Barnette Joined Jul 29, 2010
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Jun 25, 2017, 01:23 PM

If I may make one further comment to Larry and respond to his earlier post I’ve copied and pasted below:

(Larry comments on an earlier post):
Oh, last thought. We were watching, IIRC, the CMA’s and a group of songwriters went up to receive an award and one of the guys, fairly emotionally, grabbed the mic and said how gratifying this was, that music from the heart would always work out. Apparently, he had his in this one and there’d been plenty of debate over ‘feeling it’ vs. doing what was in fashion. At least that was my impression.

That resonated with me, a LOT, because that is us; every single song we write resonates with BOTH of us or off to the scrap pile AND we keep pouring them out. That;s when I started thinking “Well, if to be a song writer is that songwriting is step one, we seem to have some talent for it” My thing is that if WE don’t believe in a song, no one else is going to. They may not even if we do but the only chance it has is if WE do.


Larry, if I may comment once again and it’s about your previous post (copied above).  I truly understand why you connected with the sentiment from this professional songwriter accepting an award when they spoke about “writing from the heart”. While that is certainly true, please realize this professional songwriter has been around songwriting for awhile and has learned the “do’s” and “don’ts” of songwriting.  Writing from the “heart” is always good but has a lot of interpretation and millions of song examples.  Please know the difference how an amateur writer may approach writing “from the heart” may vary quite a bit from how a professional songwriter will approach “writing from the heart”.  So simply writing a song from the heart may not make it a good song; or even a good song idea.  It’s all in how you approach writing your song and how well you understand song craft and a well written song. 

Realize, there are millions of songwriters out there with millions of good songs (not yet recorded) in the libraries of every music city; regardless whether it’s in LA, New York; or Nashville, in every music genre.  You and Lorraine have some good performing skills and some good original songs; but will your songs or your performance skills set the two of you above the rest???

Personally I feel you both are experiencing a new discovery that you both enjoy writing and performing your songs together.  Mercy, there is nothing wrong with that and I think because you both enjoy your music journey together, you may be allowing yourselves to think more about the ultimate rewards of fame and fortune; by over looking the real sacrifices and time involved in building up a fan base and all the work a career in music truly involves.

Forget any money by performing, royalty checks in songs you hope to sell, and merely enjoy your music journey by writing your songs and performing them out.  Oh, if it turns out you gain a huge following and your songs appeal to listeners that want to buy your recordings then good for you.  However; I feel there is a good chance your songs will end up as the millions of other good songs already out there.

I’m merely trying to suggest you and Lorraine enjoy your journey and not rely on success so much.  Your success and rewards may end up being the fact you have some songs you are proud of and the numerous relationships you make with other like minded songwriters.

OD

 
     
OD-OldDog Joined Feb 14, 2016
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Jun 25, 2017, 02:11 PM

MAB, you have been questioned previously about the worth of your service and what you truly offer.  May I inform the “Lurkers” you have “TWO” types of customers that may benefit from your teachings and your mentoring service. However; both will benefit just the same by saving money.

Type 1:  Those that have the desire to improve and become the best singer/songwriter or artist they can.  Whether it’s a 15 year old artist or a 60 year old songwriter (like me); you offer your wisdom and years of experience to help.  You promise no-one success but give all of us a plan to increase our odds of reaching success; if it’s meant to be and follow your advise; or simply satisfy ourselves by writing better songs.  In this case you save all of us money and time because you lay out a plan for us to increase our odds and abilities; or avoid mistakes that would get us no-where and cost us money that would not get us anywhere in the end.

Type 2:  Those that have huge ego’s and won’t take your advise or anyone else’s unless you tell them what they want to hear.  In the type 2 case they will spend what they can afford and continue making bad decisions.  There is no helping them and if I may use a quote by you “you can lead them to water; but you can’t make them drink”.  Perhaps not an original quote you came up with but it certainly applies.

I have been around you long enough to hear your stories about those thinking they had great songs; and they almost always turn out to be very mediocre songs and soon gave up.  I’ve also heard songs you have helped promising artist’s come up with; like Frankie Ballard that I’ve wondered why the Labels he eventually signed with didn’t use the songs you wrote with him.

Regardless if your service appeals to every singer/songwriter out there or not; you make no promises but give such good advise anyone will save money by taking your advise and following the plan you advise them to; or being discouraged by your advise and quitting before they go too far and spend to much money.

OD

[ Edited: 25 June 2017 02:24 PM by OD-OldDog]
 
     
OD-OldDog Joined Feb 14, 2016
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Jun 25, 2017, 02:57 PM

Okay, one other comment I would like to make and I hope I can let it go.

Larry, if I may call you out on a simple matter and then I hope to let my opinions go on this topic.

You have recognized MAB has helped you a lot on your business plan and how to approach you and Lorraine performing your songs out and trying to attract a local fan base.  That is all good and so important, I hope you follow his advise.

What I would like to call you out on is the fact I offered you some good songwriting advise if you would simply email me; but you ignored me and didn’t think my advise was worth you paying any attention to.  Well, you may be right; but may I offer you some advise that if anyone claiming to be a seasoned and experienced songwriter (whether they are or not) you should at least be open to their advise and listen to what they have to say.

I was merely trying to share my experience (I’ve learned from MAB) about writing positive songs and trying to approach a different angle from the millions of other songs out there. Every attempt to write our songs different; doesn’t make our songs any better from the rest; but by being different they may be recognized from the rest.  However; by you ignoring me; or even being curious by what I had to say, and allowing me to give you lyric examples, makes me disappointed why you would not even be a bit curious by what I had to say.  You don’t have to follow along with my writing style but at least be willing to consider another writers style. 

Larry, you are dead to me (to use the quote by Mr. Wonderful on the Shark’s program).  However, you can win me over if your lovely Lorraine offers to sacrifice a sister or cousin to the Old Dog.  Ha!!! (totally just teasin).

OD

 
     
OD-OldDog Joined Feb 14, 2016
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Jun 25, 2017, 09:37 PM

Into the beer again are we OD? LOL! That is okay. A lot of that I am going to stay away from, but I will address one of those. Thanks for the effort and thoughts my friend. You learn well.

On “Why Frankie Ballard” didn’t use the songs we wrote after he was signed. There are a few explanations for that. When an artist is signed, labels don’t really know exactly what they are going to do with them. They become company property, and there are a lot of people, A&R people, advertising people, multiple producers, publishers, managers, etc. all involved. It is somewhat like trying to design an animal by committee. And often the VERY THING that attracted the label to someone in the first place is the VERY THING they start changing. Most doesn’t make any sense because it has to do with egos and political ramifications. And of course, money.

Labels now are putting about $4. million dollars into an artist and they don’t really know WHAT IS GOING TO WORK. So they try to hedge their bets, get the artists around all the hot writers, publishers, try to get the best songs from the hottest writers, etc. So there is a lot of pushing and pulling involved. And you are looking at one or two years before they get released as well. A lot can happen at that time.

The first song we wrote was called BAREFEET. It was written because Frankie told me he wanted a “SWAMPY, NASTY, DIRTY, COUNTRY BLUES, DOWN IN THE MUD, SONG. He also wanted it to be about women’s feet. And he didn’t want to sound like a pervert. Tall order.
Being a huge fan of Lynyrd Skynyrd and the Allman Brothers, we put it in that southern rock groove and it sort of took on a life of it’s own. Wrote it in about 30 minutes. It was one of the songs he did all the time live, with his band and solo. Was one of the first that we recorded for his first CD, and was the big showcase point of his live show when he did his two label showcases in Nashville.
It was what he played in the office of Troy Tomlinson at Sony when they signed him to his publishing deal and everyone thought it was going to be one of the first singles.

Then a weird thing happened. At his two showcases, were representatives from Jake Owen and Brooks and Dunn. Both of those artists were interested in the song. But Sony wouldn’t let it go because they thought they would use it on Frankie. A couple of months later, Jake Owen came out with his own song, called BAREFEET AND BLUE JEANS. and it went to number one. Sony backed out on releasing our Barefeet song, because it would seem like he was FOLLOWING THE LEADER.

It sort of got shelved after that. A few years later, after he was out there but still had not had a big hit, one of my friends saw Troy Tomlinson at a party in town and he said “The problem with Frankie is that they should have cut the songs they started out with.” Oh well.

Not much you can do about it. Frankie is doing fine now and maybe one day some of those early songs might come back out. But artists rarely look backwards and that is just something you live with. But I still do it a lot, it is on my CD and still gets requests and attention.

This is Frankie doing it on his second label showcase in 2008.

http://search.aol.com/aol/video?q=youtube,+Frankie+Ballard,+Barefeet&s_it=video-ans&sfVid=true&videoId=330F81B2CEBAFEC221C8330F81B2CEBAFEC221C8&v_t=client97_searchbox

 
     
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Marc-Alan Barnette Joined Jul 29, 2010
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Jun 26, 2017, 09:28 AM

MAB,  “I think you know me”.  Awe Yes, another beer drinking moment for the Old Dog.  I’ve actually cut back on those beer drinking moments some; but when I do get in the beer I usually leave a mark.

Larry, please know I was not as upset as my post may have suggested.  I realize you have most likely heard it all before and my opinions usually don’t amount to much.  Also I realize you may not have wanted to share your email address with an old opinionated beer drinker like me.  Wise decision on your part.  Ha!!!

Hey MAB,  I’ve always loved your “Barefeet” song and I’m one of those that thought it was a shame they didn’t release the song as a single for Frankie.  Part of the reason I like the song so much is because I’m older and grew up with those bands you mentioned, and I always liked those Southern Rock, Swampy type songs.  I could be wrong but it seems to me Sony led Frankie in more of a pop/country direction; perhaps trying to please the younger generation of listeners.  I truly don’t know.

It’s also a shame Sony held onto the song for so long and didn’t allow Jake Owens or Brooks and Dunn to record it; that would have been a huge feather in your cap.  However; as you always say “the music business is not always fair to everyone”.

OD

 
     
OD-OldDog Joined Feb 14, 2016
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Jun 27, 2017, 06:45 PM

OD, sorry, dude. Haven’t been ignoring you. Simply have not been on much of late. Now, having caught up, I AM avoiding you…!! LOL Not sure if I should be scared or just amused? I’ll have to ask MAB about that.

Thanks, very much, for the compliments on Epic. I wish we had more to share because I agree with your and MAB’s comments and, IIRC, some others, it’s not a complete song. It just happens to be our first, the one that started it all. I WANTED to get something up and get a little feedback.

Haven’t been on much of late because we’ve been super busy in life and all our spare time has been rehearsing and writing. This weekend is the first time my fingers actually got sore in a LONG time. We added Jolene to our set and a contemporary one by an artist named LP plus going over and over the 24 we have now as well as working on 5 new ones that just showed up.

If asking others for advice on lyrics and writing is level, say, 7, we’re at about 3 or 4 right now, if that, working at playing them all enough to even get to where I’d feel like “Ok, done all we can do, did our homework, now let’s get some critiques and seek advice”. So, thanks for the offer but we don’t see where we’re at that stage yet. We have a LOT of work to do. Hell, as is, thinking through our set, we added in some drum machine for playing out and THAT’S opened up a couple songs we WERE happy with to some changes to fit not just being vox and guitar.

As is MAB’s given us 6 months homework before I even KNOW what to ask next.

Thanks

 
     
Larry Gude Joined May 23, 2017
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Jun 27, 2017, 07:36 PM

Larry Brother (you fat old ####### and so unworthy of such a lovely girlfriend as Lorraine), please realize I love Ya, but I love Lorraine a whole lot more.  Ha!!! (of course I’m only teasing you).

Look, the idea of me getting involved (and most likely MAB) is to keep you from getting the “big head” and allowing you from getting the cart ahead of the horse.  Look, you and Lorraine are certainly talented but you remind me of some very good local musicians that used to perform in living rooms at parties back in the 70’s and 80’s.  Although they were very entertaining, and often we would enjoy their performance so much we may mention they should be playing on the big stage; we had no idea what all the business behind music may involve.  I must also admit they were playing our favorite “cover tunes” so the better they sounded like the original artist’s the more we loved them.  However; you and Lorraine have moved into another playing field of performing your own original tunes; which takes you both into an entirely different playing field; but also opens you both up to more scrutiny and criticism. 

Realize neither of you are 20 years old and performing current sounding tunes like those being played on todays radio.  So what are the chances of you collecting those big royalty checks you were hoping for.  Probably NONE.

What MAB is trying to suggest is you learn to write and perform your songs to the best of your ability, and see how the local crowd responds.  If you can win them over then move on to the next largest target in your area, and if you can attract those outside your area and build a large following, now your are on to something. 

Realize though, you always have a home and place to stay with the Old Dog. If you can’t personally make it; send Lorraine and we’ll find an audience for her.  Ha!!!

OD

 
     
OD-OldDog Joined Feb 14, 2016
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