EL MABBO IN DA HOUZE!!!!

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Dec 06, 2017, 10:24 PM

Well Marc, sounds to me like we’re just kicking a dead horse…. the music industry has already
killed itself. If everything politically inspired is out, and everything else has already been done, then
what are we doing here?

 
     
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JAPOV Joined Jul 02, 2006
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Dec 07, 2017, 12:47 AM

Well Japov, That is one way to look at it. There has not been much new written since the days of the Bible. Most everything is simply one version or another of the same thing. There is nothing you are ever going to say that has not been said before. It is all in the WAY that you say it. Or you could be like that Senator around 1900, that wanted to abolish the copyright office, because he felt everything had already been invented.

Listen, there is ALWAYS going to be a music business. There are always going to be successful writers and artists. The labels are not going to go away, television didn’t kill movies, color didn’t wipe out television, cable didn’t end the major networks, there are still books, terrestrial radio is not going away and even CD’s and VINYL are still around.

If you are looking for some giant payoff or something that is going to “make it all worth it” to you, you are always going to remain unhappy. I know huge hit writers that are always depressed because they can never get another hit. But they never have to deal with the question of “why do we do this?” They know why. They are compelled to. And they don’t waste their time whining because things don’t always go their way, they don’t make a lot of money, or they are not living in huge houses or driving enormous cars. They are working on their next hit.

Why do millions and millions of people, spend BILLIONS AND BILLIONS of dollars, on golf equipment, lessons, clothes, trips, schedule their lives around walking up and down these greens, whacking little white balls around, spending most of their time in the woods, being eaten by insects, if they are NOT GOING TO WIN THE MASTERS or play professionally? Why? Because they enjoy it. They are driven to do it. They want to get better, and enjoy themselves.

The same is to be said about music. We write because we have things we want to share with others. We like the social aspect. We enjoy having our friends. So if you don’t have some big payoff? WHO CARES?

Every writer should be doing this for the right reasons. Self expression and artistic fulfillment. If they want to step it up and go past that, to try to do something professionally, they should learn the craft, spend the time, put the hours in, study the greats, involve themselves in the social networks, and work toward being the best they can be.

So beat a dead horse? Probably. I’ve heard this same argument every day for the past 40 that I’ve been involved with this, and have known people from many decades before that. You always have the same choice as everyone. You can throw up your hands, say “What’s the point?”, complain about the unfairness of life, get mad, bitter, and be known as “that guy nobody wants to be around…” or you can work toward making your life and those around you better.

Your choice.

MAB

 
     
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MBarne4908 Joined Jul 29, 2010
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Dec 07, 2017, 07:44 AM

I dream, MAB. Every single day. I dream every time I pick up a guitar. I dream every time I listen to a song we wrote.

My problem is waiting on her to dream with me. She’s being all practical and conservative and ####. I want us to just JUMP in the water, out of the plane. I want us to just go for it. Yet, there she is worrying about ‘stuff’, stuff like a roof over our heads, food, keeping the lights on, cars working. I mean, how do you work with someone like THAT, someone with such misplaced priorities???

So, we keep writing. We have 65 songs, and counting, in various stages of completion in the ‘keeper’ file. I don’t even bother with the ‘maybe’ file anymore. Too many ones we really like backing up in the Genius file to be bothered with secondary genius.

So, if I could find a way to keep writing guitar parts while she gets over this weird phase she’s in, that would be really helpful.
It would be even better if I could bring in a few bucks to give her while I do it so I can call it a ‘job’, her favorite dirty word.

Oh, Great and Wise MAB, how do I make money coming up with one indispensable, genius, never before heard, amazing, beautiful, amazing, one of a kind, amazing guitar song after another while waiting on her to do the damn lyrics??? I don’t need to get rich at it. I’m a man of simple wants and needs. I know this is so because she tells me I am simple all the time. $10,000-1,000,000 a month, or so, would work, at least for now.


I’m dreaming of a green Chri$tma$.

Help.

 
     
Larry Gude Joined May 23, 2017
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Dec 07, 2017, 09:09 AM
Larry Gude - 07 December 2017 07:44 AM

I dream…......

My problem is waiting on her to dream with me. She’s being all practical and conservative and ####. I want us to just JUMP in the water, out of the plane. I want us to just go for it. Yet, there she is worrying about ‘stuff’, stuff like a roof over our heads, food, keeping the lights on, cars working. I mean, how do you work with someone like THAT, someone with such misplaced priorities??? 

I’m dreaming of a green Chri$tma$.

Help.

lol :)

My motivation and premise is that adults like music too… But, speaking for myself now, I can’t listen to anymore “Oh Baby Baby, Sexy Sexy, Drive Me Crazy”......... and “Don’t Worry, Be Happy” is all the confirmation I need that the music industry believes I’m just a stupid mushroom! The “Industry” really isn’t that old! The “Sex sells and the kids are buying” business model seriously needs to be updated….. the kids are all grown up!...... and are growing up faster every day.

[ Edited: 07 December 2017 09:24 AM by JAPOV]
 
     
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JAPOV Joined Jul 02, 2006
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Dec 07, 2017, 11:29 AM

“Every writer should be doing this for the right reasons.  Self expression and artistic fulfillment.”  Hidden nuggets amongst good advice MAB, anything more is gravy.  “What is the meaning of Life?”, is the big question of most of humanity, “How do I write the next greatest song?”, is the big question of most writers.  If any of us had the absolute answer to either of these questions what then would we pursue?  The fact that writers contrive lyrics and music and find it pleasing is self-satisfying, but when we as writers, push further and others find it pleasing, writers find exhilarating.  To be able to write professionally and make a living at is like grabbing the gold ring.  Not all of us will be able to reach each of these plateaus, but some will, and that is what drives us all.  Look guys, I started writing back around 1975, one of many regrets in my life is that I did not stick with it.  Life got in the way, I stopped writing around 1980 and did not start again until 2008, but I’m catching up and loving every bit of it.  Soooo… don’t let it wear you down, keep at it, and believe anyone on this site could write the greatest song ever.

Good luck and Best Wishes too all,

Speak soon

Music is an international language, say it with a song.

.(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)

 
     
Deacon Joined Aug 30, 2009
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Dec 07, 2017, 11:47 AM
Deacon - 07 December 2017 11:29 AM

“Every writer should be doing this for the right reasons.  Self expression and artistic fulfillment.”  Hidden nuggets amongst good advice MAB, anything more is gravy.  “What is the meaning of Life?”, is the big question of most of humanity, “How do I write the next greatest song?”, is the big question of most writers.  If any of us had the absolute answer to either of these questions what then would we pursue?  The fact that writers contrive lyrics and music and find it pleasing is self-satisfying, but when we as writers, push further and others find it pleasing, writers find exhilarating.  To be able to write professionally and make a living at is like grabbing the gold ring.  Not all of us will be able to reach each of these plateaus, but some will, and that is what drives us all.  Look guys, I started writing back around 1975, one of many regrets in my life is that I did not stick with it.  Life got in the way, I stopped writing around 1980 and did not start again until 2008, but I’m catching up and loving every bit of it.  Soooo… don’t let it wear you down, keep at it, and believe anyone on this site could write the greatest song ever.

Good luck and Best Wishes too all,

Speak soon


Thanks, Deacon. Most of that was meant tongue in cheek. In all honesty, we’re both very humble about how good we are/are not. We just know we LIKE what we do. We never think in terms of needing to create anything, bad, good or great. It just comes to us and we try and make the best of it form there.

I hear you and MAB says it all the time; KEEP writing.

 
     
Larry Gude Joined May 23, 2017
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Dec 07, 2017, 06:42 PM

Whew! I go out of town and you guys are all over here. Sorry, My Mother Passed away in June, and I have to make regular trips down to Birmingham to take care of her house, settle things with the estate, and deal with other issues related to that, so I was not around for a while. Like I said, “Just when I say Nashville has “slowed down.”.. In a couple hours, I’m leading a group of really great NAshville singers in a Charity Christmas caroling evening. So I’ll try to get some thoughts down. Hope they make sense.

Good comments, and I’ll try to address them one by one. I go up and read what you said, and then bring down my responses. Don’t really like the “copy” stuff on big quotes. We are kept to only so many words per post so I sometimes have to break them up. I’ll start with Deacon.

Deacon says:
“Oh, Great and Wise MAB, how do I make money coming up with one indispensable, genius, never before heard, amazing, beautiful, amazing, one of a kind, amazing guitar song after another while waiting on her to do the damn lyrics??? I don’t need to get rich at it. I’m a man of simple wants and needs. I know this is so because she tells me I am simple all the time. $10,000-1,000,000 a month, or so, would work, at least for now.”

Glad you keep your goals manageable. I love when people sit down with me and say “I don’t want to be rich and famous…” I tell them, “GOOD, YOU PICKED THE RIGHT BUSINESS FOR THAT!”

Look, there is a reason there is a phrase, “STARVING ARTIST.” It’s because most of them do. In the late 1800’s, Stephen Foster, America’s first songwriter, died with 37 cents in his pocket. I think we are almost back to that level.

It has NEVER been easy to get paid for songwriting. Back in the “glorious 80’s and 90’s,  That everyone lauds as the “GOLD DAYS” of music, it was as easy to get cuts, get paid, make a living at writing. I was here and had deals, and cuts at that time, and there was always some reason that the money didn’t come through quite like we thought it was. Having to take 3 quarter rate, to get a cut. Including artists as writers, cutting in multiple writers and splitting money, owing money for “draws” (Salaries) that you had to pay back, so when you got a cut, you had to pay back that money before you got paid. You had “returns” which albums went into the stores but were returned when they were unsold. You didn’t (and still don’t) get paid for video airplay, because it is considered PROMOTION.
You had “radio hits” and “album hits” which paid differently. You had discrepancies between the two. You had disparagies between PRO’s, BMI would pay one rate and ASCAP paid another. And you had SALES that were VASTLY SMALLER. A “Gold Record: could be given at 50,000 units. And unless you had a hit single off that, that broke the top 20, you would probably not cover the cost of the original demo of the song.

Things now are far worse in many ways. Streaming has changed the whole dynamic of the music business and people get HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of streams and make virtually nothing. And the general public gets ENDLESS music for FREE. How much do you think “UNLIMITED DOWNLOADING FOR $4.99 a MONTH covers?

So the money situation is really not something you need to focus on. And it is odd to me that there always seems to be a disconnect with newer and amateur writers in money. They don’t ever seem to realize that you have to have people to PAY for your music in order to COLLECT on your music. So artists and writers have to define WHO IS THEIR CUSTOMER, and HOW MANY COPIES CAN YOU GET THEM TO PAY YOU FOR? if you are an artist, you have to put butts in seats and sell merchandise. If you are a writer, you have to subdivide what you do with everyone out there who wants THEIR SHARE.

Like always, the more you know about the music industry, the less you WANT to know about the music industry.

So if you are dreaming of a “Green Christmas” make sure you write a “GRANDMA GOT RUN OVER BY A REINDEER” (written by my buddy Randy Brooks who I play the Bluebird tomorrow night with.) Just make sure your song is played once an hour all over the place.
That’s how you make money.

MAB

 
     
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MBarne4908 Joined Jul 29, 2010
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Dec 07, 2017, 07:03 PM

Japov says:
“My motivation and premise is that adults like music too… But, speaking for myself now, I can’t listen to anymore “Oh Baby Baby, Sexy Sexy, Drive Me Crazy”......... and “Don’t Worry, Be Happy” is all the confirmation I need that the music industry believes I’m just a stupid mushroom! The “Industry” really isn’t that old! The “Sex sells and the kids are buying” business model seriously needs to be updated….. the kids are all grown up!...... and are growing up faster every day.”

Hey Japov, you remember when you were 16 or 17 years old and you finally got to go to your favorite rock concert with your friends and went CRAZY? And you remember over near the back of the room or auditorium and there were some “creepy old guys” standing around, looking bored as their teenage daughters went nuts? Well guess what?
NOW YOU ARE THAT CREEPY OLD GUY!!!

You see, radio and younger marketing is what MOTIVATES MARKETS. They go to concerts, buy product, join fan clubs, where as older people DON’T. They still like music, but they have other uses for their money, like LIVING. It’s pretty funny, I just saw a thing yesterday where they are cutting back the times clubs are open in Canada, because less and less people are going out and venues are closing. Much of it is due to it’s TOO LATE to stay out. So do older people buy music? Yes. but they buy LESS NEW MUSIC. And they also stream from their home computers, or Alexis systems, and get everything delivered. They have their favorites and get set in their ways. That is why that old saying “Can’t teach an old dog, new tricks.” Well you can, but they just don’t CARE TO LEARN THEM.

So you are not part of the younger audience. Fine. Why try to be something you’re not? That market is gone to you now, so now you have to Find YOUR CUSTOMERS. Where is your audience? What established stars are catering to the audience you would work with?
What type of music do they look for? These are things you need to discover. Don’t spend time writing songs or trying to be who your not.
Be yourself, everybody else is taken.

Every writer and artist have to take a sober look at what they are doing. If it is working, they are attracting audiences, building their fan base, then they are doing something right. If not, they have to look in the mirror and find out what they can do better. For me, the social side of music is what covers that. Meeting and interacting with new people all the time, meeting people face to face, building REAL, not superficial relationships are central to bringing in new material, finding new avenues, getting new ideas.

And sometimes we have to make changes. I had to CHANGE when the time came. When rock music morphed away from the rock I grew up with and did, I had to morph into country. When music trends changed. I had to change with it. When I was too old to be an artist, I had to morph into more of a writer, when cuts quit paying money, I had to morph into a teacher. You have to find a way, adapt, or die, or create your own niche, or, like 90% of writers and artists, quit. Most people have about three years in them to really try this. After that, they run out of money, patience, or just give up. Considering the music business is always at least a TEN YEAR BUSINESS, that means the attrition rate is pretty high.

But the best thing NOT TO DO is to complain about things. About what is on the radio. Another odd thing to me. The very people who want to be ON the radio, are usually the ones complaining about WHAT IS ON THE RADIO. It’s sort of like sitting down to a job interview and starting out by saying, “You know, your company REALLY SUCKS and everything about what you do is wrong.” Interesting way to try and get a job.

If you think you can “change the world on radio” go try to do that. But I’d try to conquer my own little slice of the world first.

But it always reminds me of an old joke.
“What is the difference between a six week old puppy and a songwriter?”
“Eventually the puppy stops whining.”

MAB

[ Edited: 07 December 2017 07:16 PM by MBarne4908]
 
     
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MBarne4908 Joined Jul 29, 2010
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Dec 07, 2017, 07:09 PM

OK, if I’m understanding you correctly Marc, if you want to make money you have to pitch to the
labels….. and you have to pitch to them their way….. and you have to pitch what they want to hear.
Because, like it or not, THEY decide what to invest their money in and what gets marketed…... Right?

 
     
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JAPOV Joined Jul 02, 2006
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Dec 07, 2017, 07:30 PM

Japov,

NOPE. You don’t pitch anything to the labels. You pitch to ARTISTS. And you are trying to hook into younger artists BEFORE they are signed and become part of their overall journey. Once they are signed, they are beyond your reach. You are trying to become your OWN producer, artist development. And you have to do that BEFORE they become famous. Too late after that. And labels are out for ARTISTS. They have no interest in songs. All artist branding.

In 1998, I was part of a panel discussion featuring ASCAP, BMI, SEASAC, every major producer, writer, label person. In the audience was almost every top writer, artists, and power players. On the dias, were record company presidents, managers, etc. and two guys from the “TECH INDUSTRY” who were there to tell us about this new thing coming called “the INTERWEB” which was going to “revolutionize the way we did business. It was going to put us all over the world, in everyone’s home. We’d be able to get music EVERYWHERE, often without the expense of touring, or spending promotional money. It was going to be MAGIC!!!
Toward the end of the evening, which was actually quite contested by the creators, one of the tech guys said “But in the future songwriters are going to have to get used to not having royalties, because they won’t be there.”

I was sitting next to the guy who had the biggest song on the radio at that moment, who raised his hands and asked, “How will a writer make a living?”
The tech guy said “YOU WON’T.”

From that time forward you saw hit writers and publishers become the artist developers. They would find artists, build songs around them, and present them to the labels. That/s why you get FLA. GA. LINE with CRAIG WISEMAN, BEHIND THEM. JEFFERY STEELE and RASCAL FLATTS. VICTORIA SHAW and LADY ANTIBELLUM. LIZ ROSE AND TAYLOR SWIFT. These were known and hit writers who found acts, developed them and were involved in all aspects of their careers, long BEFORE the rest of the public even knew they were there.

That is what everyone has to do. If you want to do this commercially you have to be finding the artists of the next 3-5 years today.

And also, labels now are not interested in artists who are not ALREADY doing well, building fan base, being out there developing themselves. They have no interest in people coming in that are just sitting around waiting for someone to discover them. They better have huge social networking apparatus. Taylor Swift and Justin Beiber had HUGE fan followings LONG before they were signed to labels. That is WHY they were signed to labels.

Better get out there and start looking. Because these new artists have NO INTEREST in listening to anybody else in the first place. They don;‘t need or want the :creepy old guys, and particularly the people just trying to contact them on the Internet. And if you know how weird the Internet is, you can’t blame them. Just ask any really good looking girl or guy, find their page and read the comments. Got a whole lot of Kevin Spacey’s and Harvey Weinstiein’s out there. Better plan on getting out of your living room.

MAB
MAB

 
     
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MBarne4908 Joined Jul 29, 2010
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Dec 07, 2017, 07:32 PM

And if you want to make MONEY, you might want to be in the stock market.

MAB

 
     
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MBarne4908 Joined Jul 29, 2010
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Dec 07, 2017, 08:04 PM

“Be yourself, everybody else is taken”

LOL, that’s the second time you’ve said that to me MAB. You just don’t get me at all….. I’ve been
writing and recording since I was 15 years old! I’ve made a point of NEVER allowing myself to become
the typical “Sex, Drugs and Rock n Roll” stereotype! I KNOW PRECISELY WHY NOBODY KNOWS MY
NAME! That’s not whining you’re hearing, that’s tennitus you old “Could have been!” And, of course,
you know what they say about those who teach! You know what the real irony is?
1- Football
2- Music
3- Bull$h!t politics
This could have actually been an interesting thread….......

 
     
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JAPOV Joined Jul 02, 2006
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Dec 07, 2017, 10:38 PM

King Mab! Fun Fact: I played Mercutio in Romeo and Juliet in High School. Every time I see your initials it reminds me of that. anyways…

really enjoyed reading this thread.  thought i’d chime in with some semi-coherent thoughts of my own in no particular order:

it is an absolutely wonderful time to be a recording musician, with all the tech that’s available that wasn’t when I was 15 years old learning how to play guitar. (i’m 37 now) Yes the internet has changed the face of the music industry, for better and worse. Artists have to really the passion for the music and the hustle to get it in front of people. Album sales are NOT what they used to be so ticket sales and merchandise are the main source of income. On the flip side of that, thanks to the internet, I can buy albums (CD’s and merch even) directly from the bands/artist and skip the middle man - for the most part.

I recently started buying CD’s again after ten years of consuming MP3’s. some people collect, comic books, some collect stamps, I collect CD’s.  something about holding the disc, the case, the artwork in my hands that feels so right, know what I mean? not to mention the sound quality versus MP3 is hands down waaaay better.

I am constantly in search of music - old and new. for example I recently completed Hawkwind’s entire catalog (Hall of the Mountain Grill and Warrior on the Edge of Time being my favorites) and have gotten into very new bands Inter Arma (‘paradise gallows’ rocks my socks) and Metz (2nd album and new new album Strange Peace are killer) also recently gotten into indie crust hip hop act Death Grips. great stuff.

Just this last year I’ve seen Metz, Mastodon, and Swans live in concert. yeah not as many as I used to go see and I realize i’m starting to get less younger, but it doesn’t stop me from going to shows. makes for a great date night for me and wifey.

when I was younger, I had the whole rock n roll dream of touring the world and being on the cover of rolling stone, but I was more interested in living the rock n roll lifestyle of party party party than I was in actually writing music. many years later (and 3 kids, 1 dog, and 2cats) I still have the same passion for music as I did then. it’s just part of who I am, but I’ve long ago made peace that I will not become rich and famous. I will not tour the world. I will not be on the cover of rolling stone. hell, i’m not even trying to start a band or do shows as a solo artist. coming to terms with this (and getting clean and sober) has been very liberating. it freed me up to just DO. in my mind, i’m successful, i’m doing what I love. and its thanks in large part to the availability and affordability of tech that is Now available that wasn’t before. and at 37 I’ve been able to accomplish a lot more musically than I did when I was in my teens/twenties.  I feel like i’m just getting started, and at the same time i’m totally content to write my tunes and share them on websites like this one (Thank You!) and share with my immediate friends and family. at the very end of the day, i’m happy just to write the music that I want to listen to, even if no one else does.  yes it’s a hobby. I hate calling it that, I prefer ‘passion’ but basically that’s what it is. a very expensive hobby. heh.

rambling on. just wanted to share. thanks again for this website and for stopping in and saying Hello!

 
     
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Brad Jaggard Joined Jun 22, 2016
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Dec 07, 2017, 11:02 PM

Tony:
1. Football: SEAHAAAAWKS! yeah, i’m pretty bummed that the three hours that I tune into football to escape BullSh*t politics has become political.

2. Music: is Great. Love it. Writing Recording and mixing it: The Best. total hard on. except when it becomes a headache. still love it. cant stop.

3. BullSh*t Politics: disgusting fact of life be it on a micro scale between a small group of people or on the gross scale of national international politics. but I cant look away. actually I can and have been more and more. on the larger scale anyway. getting harder and harder to stomach it all.

Does make for an infinite well of musical ideas and inspiration though, doesn’t it? you know, I don’t mind certain bands or artists getting political with their music. Some do it very very well. Rage Against the Machine immediately comes to mind. other bands, not so much. Green Day comes to mind. Guess its all how you approach and handle it. your tune ‘Stand Up’ falls into former. great song that goes beyond the NFL thing. excellent lyrics with ‘universal appeal’. (cue Frank Zappa voice: “it’s sooo appealing”)

later dude! :D

 
     
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Brad Jaggard Joined Jun 22, 2016
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Dec 07, 2017, 11:36 PM

Tony:

From the Dept Of Conspiracy Theories and Divisional Team Rivalries: Methinks, Colin Kapernick, being a young ‘flash in the pan’ QB realized his star was falling fast and said to himself ‘self, what can i possibly say or do to stay in front of the cameras/headlines? hmm…I KNOW! I’ll become a Social Justice Warrior!”

the rest is history.

none of this would be happening if he didnt suck at football.


signed, your pal and diehard SeaHawks fan for LIFE!

B-Rad

 
     
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Brad Jaggard Joined Jun 22, 2016
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